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Επιστροφή στο Forum : Προποντίς [Kaffir Prince, Propontis, Nafe, Emmanuel]



Nicholas Peppas
24-06-2009, 22:49
Propontis was another one of Pandelis Bros' ships that was used in the Greek seas for some eight years. Propontis was what we call "a mixed ship", i.e., a passenger and cargo ship with about 40 rooms for passengers. She was built in 1891 at Short Bros in Pallion. She was called Kaffir Prince and had a length of 89.2 m, width of 11.7 m and a tonnage of 2,228 tons. Her service speed was 12 knots.

Here are her Miramar entries



IDNo: 1097984 Year: 1891
Name: KAFFIR PRINCE Launch Date: 2.11.91
Type: Cargo ship Date of completion: 12.91
Flag: GBR Keel:
Tons: 2228 Link: 1528
DWT: Yard No: 211
Length overall: Ship Design:
LPP: 89.2 Country of build:GBR
Beam: 11.7 Builder: Short Bros.
Material of build: Location of yard: Pallion
Number of screws/Mchy/ Speed(kn): 1T-
Owner as Completed: J.Knott, Newcastle
Subsequent History: 19 PROPONTIS - 27 NAFE - 33 EMMANUEL
Disposal Data: BU Genoa 9.33




Name Tons Change Main Owner
KAFFIR PRINCE 2228 1891 J.Knott
PROPONTIS 2228 1919 Pandeli Bros
NAFE 2228 1927 M.Nafe
EMMANUEL 2228 1933 A.Rodiades


Kaffir Prince belonged to the Prince Line. Starting in 1875, James Knott had purchased a fleet of small sailing vessels. He managed this fleet as a broker, although recorded as 'owner'. In 1882 he purchased his first steamship and in 1884 founded the Prince Steam Shipping Co. Ltd., one of several single ship companies formed by Knott. In 1897 the rights to Furness Withy's Mediterranean - New York passenger / cargo service were acquired. By 1898, 38 ships were owned and the company was redesignated as the Prince Line Ltd. After Italian emigration legislation of 1906, Prince Line withdrew from the Italy - New York service.

During the 1900-15 period, Kaffir Prince was involved in the following routes


Antwerp - London - Mediterranean.
Black Sea - UK and USA - UK (oil trade)
Antwerp - London - South America (cargo)
Antwerp - London - West Indies

A detailed analysis of the Prince Line can be found in http://www.red-duster.co.uk/PRINCE8.htm where one will see also the following photograph of the ship along with a short analysis



KAFFIR PRINCE was built in 1891 by Short Bros. at Sunderland with a tonnage of 2228 grt, a length of 292 ft 6in, a beam of 38ft 7in and a service speed of 10 knots. She entered service in December 1891 and started a trend whereby ships were built with a clipper bow. In 1919 she was sold to Pandelis Bros. of Piraeus and renamed Propontis. Five years later she was transferred to Pandelis Bros. Ltd. of London and the British flag without a change of name. In 1926 she was sold to Mrs Zeinabbent Khalil Mourad el Geretly of Alexandria and in 1928 was renamed Nafe by Mohamed Effendi Nafe, also of Alexandria. She was broken up in 1933 at Thomas Cook's old works at Boulac, Alexandria.


Here is what seems like the same photo and the Prince Line insignia from http://enc.slq.qld.gov.au/logicrouter/servlet/LogicRouter?PAGE=object&OUTPUTXSL=object_enc36ui.xslt&pm_RC=PICTQLD&pm_OI=10361&api_1=GET_OBJECT_XML&num_result=0
4561945621

In http://www.fortunecity.com/littleitaly/amalfi/13/shipp.htm Louis Alfano notes



PRINCE LINE FREIGHTERS WHICH CARRIED SOME PASSENGERS TO NEW YORK
(1893 - 1899) Each of the following Prince Line vessels is shown in the Morton Allan Directory as having carried passengers to New York at least once during the year(s) indicated. None of them are listed in North Atlantic Seaway by N.R.P. Bonsor as passenger ships. Evidence indicates that these were all freighters which carried a limited number of cabin passengers. While the cabin accommodations on these freighters were doubtless preferable to steerage on the big "immigrant ships," I believe it would be less than honest to consider them to be "first class." The limited descriptive information below is extracted from the article Progress of the Prince Line by A.J. Henderson in Sea Breezes, October 1949, pp. 264-280, courtesy of Ted Finch. In many instances, the Prince Line gave the same names to successor ships, after a particular vessel was taken out of service, so it is important to note that the description pertains only to the vessel of the year(s) indicated.
STUART PRINCE of 1893 - 2,250 deadweight tons
G RECIAN PRINCE of 1893 & 1899 - 3,070 deadweight tons , built 1888.
CARIB PRINCE of 1894 - 2,850 deadweight tons, with figurehead & clipper stem, built circa 1890.
DANISH PRINCE of 1894 - approximately 2,000 deadweight tons, built circa 1884.
ASIATIC PRINCE of 1896 & 1898 - 2,920 deadweight tons
EASTERN PRINCE of 1896 - 2,950 deadweight tons
CASTILLIAN PRINCE of 1898 - 3,000 deadweight tons
ROMAN PRINCE of 1898 & 1899 - 2,550 deadweight tons
KAFFIR PRINCE of 1899 - 2,820 deadweight tons (1895) - built in 1891. Last surviving Prince liner to carry a figurehead. Sold after World War I, renamed PROPONTIS, then NAFE.
CYPRIAN PRINCE of 1899 - 2,750 deadweight tons - built as the CYPRUS in 1878. Purchased by Prince Line in 1899, renamed CYPRIAN PRINCE, wrecked off coast of Portugal in a dense fog in 1908.

Nicholas Peppas
24-06-2009, 23:25
The Pandelis Bros are discussed in http://www.nautilia.gr/forum/showpost.php?p=221318&postcount=4

In their book Emporio kai Trapezes ston Peiraia, Melios, Bafouni and Steinhauer (IMTIIE, Piraeus, 2002) provide valuable information about the Pandelis Shipping Company.
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As you will note, Propontis is presented as a "passenger ship". What is more interesting is an ad from September 27, 1924 (in the Thessalonikian newspaper Makedonia) where the ship is listed as a luxurious yacht of 4,000 tons and 14 knots. What a "truth in advertising". By the way, I have never heard of a 4,000-ton yacht! But the schedule is really ambitious... Thessaloniki, Constantinople, Varna!
45627

One month later (October 23, 1924) the ship has been down t a 3,000-ton ship, a "former postal ship"...
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Ellinis
29-06-2009, 17:29
Η ίδια φωτογραφία του KAFFIR PRINCE σε καλύτερη ανάλυση. Αν θυμάμαι καλά από το εξαιρετικό ιστότοπο riversea (http://www.riverseainternational.co.uk/index.htm).

Βαπόρι με ωραία πλώρη, πιστεύω οτι ήταν αμιγώς φορτηγό και όποτε χρειαζόταν μετέφερε όποιον είχε τα κότσια να το προτιμήσει :rolleyes:

Πιθανότατα οι τολμηροί επιβάτες να φέρναν μαζί τους και τα απαραίτητα για το ταξίδι συμπράγκαλα...

46505

Nicholas Peppas
12-03-2011, 05:39
Μετα απο πολλα χρονια στην υπερατλαντικη γραμμη σαν Kaffir Prince, το Προποντις αρχισε να χρησιμοποιειται στην γραμμη Πειραιως Κωνσταντινουπολεως. Εδω στις 13 Δεκεμβριου 1922.

126072

Ellinis
13-10-2014, 21:22
Μια είδηση για άφιξη του ΠΡΟΠΟΝΤΙΣ στον Πειραιά έμφορτο με πρόσφυγες από την Κιλικία, τον Ιούλιο του 1923:
160598

Με την ευκαιρία να δούμε και μια ακόμη φωτογραφία του ως KAFFIR PRINCE:
160599

Στην ίδια ιστοσελίδα (http://www.ebay.ie/itm/La6376-249-Real-Photo-Kaffir-Prince-c1910-Unused-G-VG-/400760654600?pt=UK_Collectables_Postcards_MJ&hash=item5d4f324b08) παραθέτει το παρακάτω ιστορικό του σκάφους με διαφορά οτι διαλύθηκε στην Αλεξάνδρεια αντί για τη Σαβόνα που αναφέρουν άλλες πηγές, ενώ δεν αναφέρει την τελική μετονομασία σε ΕΜΜΑΝUEL.

In 1919 she was sold to Pandelis Bros. of Piraeus and renamed Propontis. Five years later she was transferred to Pandelis Bros. Ltd. of London and the British flag without a change of name. In 1926 she was sold to Mrs Zeinabbent Khalil Mourad el Geretly of Alexandria and in 1928 was renamed Nafe by Mohamed Effendi Nafe, also of Alexandria. She was broken up in 1933 at Thomas Cook's old works at Boulac, Alexandria.

Την μετονομασία σε EMMANUEL την επιβεβαιώνει όμως το Lloyd's:
160600