clipper, round of the world

[Κουμπαρος]

Απολογούμαι που ξεφεύγω λίγο από το θέμα αλλά μιας και αναφέρθηκε η συγκίνηση της ιστιοπλοίας το Σαββατοκυρίακο που πέρασε γνώρισα δύο σχετικά αντίθετες πλευρές τις αγωνιστικής ιστιοπλοίας που η κάθε μια είχε την συγκίνηση της. Αγώνας το Σάββατο με 5-6 κόμβους μέγιστο πραγματικό άνεμο που προσπαθείς να εφαρμόσεις όποια τεχνική ξέρεις για να τσουλίσει λίγο το σκάφος (π.χ πλήρωμα σταβέντο για να πάρει κλίση το σκάφος και να γεμίσουν τα πανιά) και αγώνα την Κυριακή με αρκετό κύμα και ένα 5άρι γεμάτο και όλο το πλήρωμα στα σοφράνο ρέλια με κάποιο στην σκότα να μαζέυει τις σπηλιάδες. ΑΠΟΘΕΩΣΗ.

...τώρα πίσω στην πραγματικότητα του γραφείου να διαβάζω το nautilia.gr και το πνεύμα μου να ταξιδεύει.

[mangos]

ρίξε μια ματιά εδώ... πριν τραβήξουμε το βιντεάκι, πετούσαμε πιο γρήγορα!!!

Εγώ είμαι ο Χάππυ Τρίμερ... χε χε

[pink floyd]

Katarxhn na zhthsw sugnwmh gia ta greeklish.Fhle mango nomizw oti h istoria sou einai akrws dhdakitkh kai gia akomh mia fora apodiknhei oti padou yparxei enas muthos!!!!Einai odunhro na apomuthopoiounte kapia pragmata brosta sta matia mas,to ezhsa polu prosfata se istioploiko epipedo....
Katarxhn plhrwses....kai thewrw aparadekto na uparxei tetoia katastash sto eswteriko,auto dixnei kathara adiaforia kai adiepagelmatismo apo merous tous.Exw dei agglida se check out na''psaxnei''na vrei skonh se apithana shmeia tou skafous,to opoio o idiokthths katharize,brosta sta matiamou maniodws epi 3 wres....apotelesma:na kovei xrhmata apo to naulo kai na kanei parapona sto grafeio!!!!!Sugnwmh alla sth thesh sou,kai me thn ebhria pou exeis,DEN THA EBENA KAN STO SKAFOS,DEN THA KSEKINOUSA TO COURSE,tha apaitousa na tO katharisoun.Borei autos o agwnaS na einai proklhsh,ALLA PLHRWNEIS fhle!!!H miza borei naxalasei opotedhpote,alla apo th stigmh pou eksarxhs eixe provlhma shmainei oti,opws kai esu eipes,den eixan sudhrhsei.EIDHKA AUTA TA SKAFH THA EPREPE NA SUDHROUDE TOULAXISTON MIA FORA TO XRONO OSON AFORA EKSARTIA KAI GASTRA AN MH TI ALLO.Dhladh o idiokthths tou enoikiazomenou pou allazei ladia toulaxiston 2 fores to xrono einai xazos????To psugeio adunatw na to katanohsw,EILHKRHNA.Kapoios eipe:mhn exeis sto skafos kati pou den boreis na ftiakseis....auto fusika den shmainei na mhn exeis tipota alla na matheis na ftiaxneis ta pada!!!!MautH th logikh den tha eprepe na exoun radar,gps,mhxanes,reverses.
An kai den polushbathw tous Agglous theorw oti epeidh kai ws laos einai tupikotatoi den kanoun sumvivasmous se themata asfaleias,tha perasoun ta life lines,tha exoun foremenes zwnes k swshvia,se adithesh me ton ''Ellhnara''pou perimenei thn teleutaia sthgmh.Exw dei polla agglika site kai oi paroxes tous pragmatika einai pampoles se ekpaideuthko epipedo kai aposo exw katalavei ekei h istioploia diathetei ena enoiaio ekpaideuthko plaisio. Prosfata fhlos parakolouthise to course day sailing ths RYA kai perase 8wrh ekpaideush,me polla MOB,pleush se potamI,paliries kai abotes.Mou edwse epishs kai mia ekshghsh tou giati oi Aggloi einai toooso kakoi sthn agurovolia....ta perisotera skafh tous einai plagiodethmena,profanos logo xorou.Opws kai naxei emeine enthousiasmenos k mazh tou k egw perigrafodasta mou.
Oson afora tis eksetaseis....kai edw menw anaudos,EILIKRHNA DEN TO PERIMENA OUTE KAI AUTO EIDHKA APO MIA TETOIA ETERIA POU DIORGANWNEI ENAN TOSO MEGALO AGWNA.Gnwmh mou,an eisai diathethmenos na''blekseis''kai na apaithseis epistrofh xrhmatwn dikasthka,KANTO,kanto gia na adiliftoume oti edw sth ellada den eimaste telika oi xeiroteroi tou planhth.Sugoura uparxoun elhpseis se polla epipeda,sthn ekpaideush,stis marines,sto yachting ALLA kati tetoies marturies pou apomithopoioune mas prosgionoune.Edw uparxoun polla parapona gia mia sxolh twn 300euro kai esu,an upologisa kala exeis plhrwsei 7xil lires.Mhn pareksigithw ta parapona kala kanoun kai uparxoun alla toulaxiston mauta ta xrhmata vlepeis k baloni,ta vasika.
Katalhgodas thelw na pw oti as papsoume na fthnoume sunaixei to edw anazhtontas sunaixeia to kalhtero allou.kai polu kalous ekpaideutes exoume kai arketa skafh pou zhtane plhrwma gia gwnes kai agwnes''dunatous''Sugoura den exoume VOR alla to aigaio arxipelagos einai dunatos agwnas,AS TO ANAVIOSOUME,as prosegisoume anthrwpous pou katakairous kanoun oneira gia ellhnikes sumetoxes se dietneis thalasses me prosfato paradeigma thn prothesh tou optimum sailing team gia to VOR kai as mhn psaxnoume autes tis proklhseis mono''eksw''.Thn kalh parea boreis na thn vreis k edw,an k to gnwrizeis kalhtera apo emena,to idio k to baloni opws kai ta 20aria sto planarisma.
PROS THEOU MHN ME PAREKSIGISEIS DEN APEUTHINOMAI SESENA,ALLA SE OLOUS MAS!!!

[mangos]

Έχεις δίκιο.
Προς το παρόν, εχω πληρώσει τα μισά σχεδόν. Πληρώνω 650 λίρες τον μήνα, περίπου. Την προηγούμενη δόση, δεν την έστειλα. Τον Ιούνιο, είναι το τρίτο και το τέταρτο στάδιο της εκπαίδευσης, υποτίθεται θα μας μάθουν τακτική, θα γνωρίσουμε την ομάδα και τον σκίππερ του σκάφους που θα συμμετάσχουμε, και θα μάθουμε first aid και μετεορολογία κλπ.

Ο 'αγώνας' ξεκινάει τον Σεπτέμβριο, και το μπράτσο που εγώ επέλεξα, τον Νοέμβριο. Αλλά, επειδή έχω πλέον καταλάβει ότι η ιστορία είναι πιο πολύ τουριστική ατραξιόν, σκέφτομαι (εαν θα συνεχίσω...) να αλλάξω προορισμό. Παίζει ένα μπράτσο που ξεκινάει από Χαβάη και τελειώνει Τζαμάϊκα, ενώ διασχίζει για 3 μέρες τον Παναμά... Κάποτε έβλεπα ένα ντοκυμαντέρ για την διώρυγα, και ζήλεψα... Εκεί, θα εισθάνομαι ασφαλέστερος, γιατί θα υπάρχει σχετικά κοντά το us coast guard, και σε περίπτωση προβλήματος, δεν θα είμαστε στην μέση του πουθενά.

Αποφάσεις θα πάρω στο τέλος της άλλης εβδομάδας, και κάθε γνώμη, παρατήρηση, σκέψη, προβληματισμός, κλπ θα με βοηθήσει να αποφασίσω με περισσότερα επιχειρηματα από αυτά που θα είχα εαν δεν το συζητούσα μαζί σας. Οπότε... κάθε άποψη, είναι όχι μόνο δεκτή, αλλά και χρήσιμη για εμένα.

Ευχαριστώ

[Enigma]

Επι του θεματος δεν εχω κατι να πω ...την εμπειρια την ξερεις καλητερα για το αν αξιζει οπως και η τσεπη σου αν συμφωνει η οχι ...Αλλα εχω μια οφ τοπικ παρατηρηση ...
ΚΑΛΑ ΠΟΛΥ ΦΑΤΣΑ Ο HAPPY TRIMER χα χα χα....αλλαγη του nick name σου ΕΔΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΩΡΑ !!! χα χα ...τρελη φαση ....αυτη η ταχυτητα ε ? ΔΕΝ βλεπω την στιγμη που θα μου τυχει και εμενα ...ΕΚΕΙ να δεις φατσα !!!

[mangos]

πράγματι, κι εγώ απόρησα με την φάτσα μου, δεν με έχω ξαναδεί τόσο χαρούμενο και γελαστό, την είχα καταβρεί!!!

[vas]

πράγματι, κι εγώ απόρησα με την φάτσα μου, δεν με έχω ξαναδεί τόσο χαρούμενο και γελαστό, την είχα καταβρεί!!!

επομενο ειναι. αλλωστε σε mount GAY ειχες ανεβει.. :-)

[mangos]

μετά από σχεδόν ένα μήνα, μου απάντησαν άρες-μάρες κουκουνάρες:

Thank you for your email regarding your part A and B Training. My apologies for my slow response, I have been away on business for a couple of weeks.



I am very pleased to here that you enjoyed your 2 weeks training with us and that you feel that you have learnt a lot during this time. I am sure you will continue to learn a great deal during the remainder of your preparation for the race and the race itself.



I would like to thank you for the detailed feedback that you have provided, it is always helpful to receive constructive feedback on the training and events that we deliver, and we always take it onboard in order to improve our service. You make many points in your email which I have noted however I would like to deal with the key issues that you raise at the end of your email.



· Better maintenance on yacht.



Clipper Ventures employs its own in house maintenance team to ensure that the fleet is maintained to the highest standards possible which is essential for a round the world race fleet. It does however sound that during your training you did experience several unfortunate failings, namely the starter motor, the gas leak and the gear box bracket failure. It is very unusual for our boats to have such issues especially in the space of two weeks. I think it is also important to point out that all of these faults were caused by general wear and tear and very difficult to identify prior to the problem occurring. When issues arise it is always our aim to minimize the effects on the training courses. The boats have also recently returned from 35,000 miles of tough ocean racing which of course takes its toll on them. The fleet is currently going through a thorough refit program in preparation for the next race, the fruits of which you will experience during your Part C training.



· Diet.



Victualling a yacht for an ocean race is an extremely complicated task. The boats that we race on are race boats and as such are fairly basic. It is simply not feasible to have refrigerators on board as the volume of fresh food required for 18 crew for 4/5 weeks would be immense. Also if something was to go wrong the food would perish very quickly, especially in the tropics leaving a crew thousands of miles from safety without any food. It is our opinion that this risk is not one we would like to take. The other issue is one of weight refrigerators can be very heavy and would impede the performance of the yachts. This is the reason you will not find refrigerators on any serious race yacht. I would agree with you that diet is very important on the race it is after all the fuel that drives the crew and without it the crews performance with suffer. During the race the victualling will be one of the responsibilities of the crew and therefore you will be able to have a say about what you eat both during your Part C training and the race itself. You will be amazed how difficult it is to keep everybody happy with the limited facilities available. I think your idea of taking vitamin supplements is a good one and most of the boats take a good supply with them.



· Fake tests.



The purpose of the assessments which are moderated by Falmouth Marine School is to allow the crew members to reflect on what they have learned during the week and to stimulate further learning in any area's that there are weaknesses. As such the Skippers and Mates helping with answers is an important part of the process, however I will be very disappointed if the Skippers are simply telling the crews what to write as this does not help anybody. I am also unhappy with the assessments being undertaken in the environment that you describe. Both these issues have been addressed with all of our training staff, and I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for bringing it to my attention.



I hope this addresses some of the concerns raised in your email, and again thank you for your feedback it is always very useful. I look forward to seeing you for your Part C training next year.



Kind Regards



James





James Allen

Head of Training - Clipper Ventures



Office: +44 (0)23 9252 6000

Mobile: +44 (0)7989 344 428

E-Mail: [email protected]

Web: www.clipper-training.com



Clipper Ventures

Unit 1A

Granary & Bakery Building

Royal Clarence Yard

Weevil Lane

Gosport

Hampshire

PO12 1FX

[mangos]

κι εγώ, τους απάντησα το πιο κάτω:

Thank you for your reply; I would like to respond to some points that you made.



With regard to the tests; I would like to clarify that during the first week, the skipper and the mate were indeed helpful with their answers as you suggested. The problems occurred with the testing that was conducted during the second week in the pub. The system you described did not take place.



With regards provisioning: As far as the provisioning a yacht for a race is concerned, I find your answers somewhat naive. To assume that one has to provision entirely with fresh food for a long distance race is stupid and insults the questioner. I never said that it was necessary to provide only fresh food, but that it would be expected to be available for the first few days and weeks (lemons, onions etc). Numerous articles have been written by well-respected authorities on this subject, and I refer you, for example, to the following article written about the 1993-94 Whitbread, in particular the last paragraph at the bottom of the page ( http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/...ng/sailing.htm ).

My complaint concerned the fact that during the training weeks we were on board neither did we receive dry food, as you recommend (even for training purposes) nor vitamin or mineral supplements, but instead we had items like cheese and chicken that (after 4 or 5 days) had not been refrigerated (thus risking our health and well being) , without an adequate supply of supplementary fresh food. This is an important health issue and it shows that your organization did not really take the necessary precautions or educate your skippers with regards to provisioning and food preparation, thereby endangering the health of the crew for even the most limited time offshore during a training week...



After my experience in England, I have had many discussions with professional Captains both here in Greece and in the UK, regarding conditions on board. In addition to questioning provisioning they also mentioned various other issues including a safety problem which I did not previously know about.

You are currently using a 'single clip safety line'. The Hellenic Seaman Training Center and other professional offshore sailors have told me that they always use a double clip safety line, so that when you unclip from one location and until you get clipped on the next one, you are not left exposed with no safety line to falling over the side into the sea.

I find it extremely difficult to understand why Capt. Juan would not let JC use his double clip tether and why you haven't been using this system. I know that it's been used for many years everywhere else and may be included in the RORC Offshore Racing Rules, criteria for crew safety, but instead you take risks with the single clip safety line system.



With regards VAT: As an accountant, I read invoices and literature very carefully. The literature and invoice indicates that the part B Training is supposed to be off-shore, and therefore outside UK VAT jurisdiction, whereas in part A (the coastal part) you've charged V.A.T. It ended up that part B also took place close to the coast and we spent nights from port to port. How was part B different in this regards? Does this happen often? Or is there another reason why on the part B, VAT is not charged?



I have let time pass so that I could be objective about the conditions during this 2 week training experience before making any further decisions. Despite this, and even though at the end I had fun and a good break from work, I feel that I did not receive from you what I paid for.



In the first week we did not do any training in anchoring at night. Although I did receive some training in sail trimming, we lost more than a day due to poor maintenance on a yacht that did not go around the world (?). In the second week lost more time due to poor yacht maintenance (seized winches, transmission failure, the lack of working, accurate navigation equipment [GPS, RDF, accurate, updated charts, good log keeping and basic Dead Reckoning], and Capt. Juan's apparent inability to understand tide tables, the need to clean other peoples vomit and urine up immediately on coming onboard on the Sunday before training could begin. We did not experience any offshore sailing, either in the day or at night and had a skipper who thought it was more important to chase women than do his job. I was not trained fully in regards to my personal safety and my health was put to risk because of the way the food was stored during these two weeks.


Consequently I feel that I put my life at risk with your company and do not have any faith in your company's marketed ability despite your lucky track record. I could not put my life at risk in the in the middle of the ocean and rely on your company's level of professional skills as exhibited so far.



I had expected that in a place like England, the standard of yachting would be up to date in terms of health, safety and maintenance. I have been extremely disappointed. I am most surprised that health authorities and inspectors have not checked either the yachts or the level of training provided, and to be honest I was completely disillusioned by what I saw. I do not wish to continue learning 'the 'Clipper Way', (as was frequently quoted during my two weeks on board) as I do not feel that the high level of seamanship skills I expected to experience during my training period with your prestigious organization were in exhibited as standard practice on board.



Therefore, I do not wish to take part in any further training or the race, as I do not feel that the services you provide were satisfactory. I would like you to refund the balance of my account and maintain my rights for legal representation should it be required.



Antonis Mangos

Επίσης, κατάγγειλα τα γεγονότα στην Υπηρεσία υγιεινής του Πόρτσμουθ, οι τύποι πάθανε την πλάκα τους, και στο Φάλμουθ Μαριν Σκουλ, που μου είπαν πως... όλα τα μαθήματα έπρεπε να γίνονται σε classroom, ούτε μέσα στο σκάφος, ούτε βέβαια μέσα σε πάμπ!!!

Ένας φίλος, που ξέρει καλύτερα αγγλικά από εμένα, έχει αναλάβει το διεθνές ξεκατίνιασμα, σε ιστιοπλοϊκά φόρουμ. Ήδη, κάποιοι παλιότεροι πελάτες τους, έχουν επιβεβαιώσει πως στο δικό τους ταξίδι, είχαν διάφορα προβλήματα, εξ αιτίας της γενικότερης κακής συντήρησης και κατάστασης των σκαφών.

Δεν θα σταματήσουμε, μέχρι να καταλάβουν πως μπορεί να έχουν συνηθίσει να κερδίζουν χρήματα με μπακαλίστικες πρακτικές, αλλά αυτό θα αποτελεί παρελθόν από τώρα και στο εξής.

[jerry_p]

Εξαιρετικά ενδιαφέρουσα η τοποθέτηση. Σε ευχαριστούμε που τη μοιράζεσαι μαζί μας, προσωπικά πιστεύω ότι μας βοηθάει όλους να βελτιώσουμε την οπτική μας απένατι σε σχετικά θέματα ...